Dungeon Master Inspiration
DMI is a podcast made to share the tricks of the trade of DMs with a wide range of experience levels, from fresh, new DMs to wisened masters of the position.
We focus on exploring topics within the world of DnD that consistently pose problems to DMs, such as developing characters, the use of monsters & NPCs, and combat. You'll hear from a variety of DMs speaking on a plethora of intriguing controversial issues in-depth.
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Dungeon Master Inspiration
Intelligent Monsters: Unveiling the Cunning and Strategy Behind D&D Creatures
Venture further with us as we soar with dragons, debate the psionic might of mind flayers, and ponder the ancient dominion of aboleths. Our conversation offers a treasure trove of insights into the subtle nuances of monster intelligence and the complex roles they occupy in the tapestry of the D&D universe. Learn how Dungeon Masters and players alike can engage these formidable adversaries in non-lethal confrontations, from devilish bargains to potential alliances, and understand the stark contrast in behavior exhibited by different creatures when they cross paths with adventurers. Join us for a quest filled with inspiration, where every encounter with an intelligent foe promises to be as much a battle of wits as it is of steel.
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All right, welcome back to the next episode of DMI. I just wanted to take a real quick moment to say thank you to everyone who's been listening to. This point Really does mean a lot, especially as we're crossing this large milestone of going over 100 downloads. We really appreciate all of the support that people have given to the channel and all the kind comments. So, going forward, today our topic is going to be intelligent creatures, and I am joined by the one the only, okay, but the one, the only Jay Cerulean. So, with creatures in mind, I mean they play, as we mentioned in our monsters episode. They play a massive part in every single encounter that you're going to have in D&D and it's kind of one of those things where the more intelligent the creature, the more effort you have to do into planning the encounter. That being said, where is that kind of line where you would consider a monster, the line where you would consider a creature like really an intelligent creature rather than just a base mob Like would you consider like a goblin and an intelligent monster?
Speaker 2:So a lot of it comes on organization. So for me it's based on how organized it is. Like one goblin chilling in a camp is like, especially because they're a playable race, they're not unintelligent, but one goblin isn't going to be your typical, like intelligent creature, whereas like if you have a goblin horde who's living through these cave systems and have like a full thing going on in there, then that kind of hits that point of okay, this isn't just a monster, it's now something intelligent and doing thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that that's a fair way to look at it, because the intelligence of different monsters is, like, I would say, a pretty big differential thing and especially as we get into these more monster races that for some reason Wizards is really getting into I've noticed at least, and I really enjoy playing them because they can be a lot of fun to play some of the monster races it's only widening that kind of gap.
Speaker 1:I feel like I mean, we're still at this point where there's some quote unquote intelligent monsters like you can't really play a mind flare, you can't really play a dragon. There's a couple races still where they haven't let us play them. But then there's cobalts, which now have a playable race, and there's goblins, which I would previously have said are a little less of an intelligent race. But I would say the kind of the breaking point for me would be there's this intelligent and there's this really intelligent category. I would say your intelligent monsters would be like your cobalts, your goblins, all of your things that are gonna be thinking through plans, scheming, especially hobgoblins, and then you have your really intelligent monsters where we start to get into dragons, some deities some people consider intelligent monsters and like I mean, what's another great one Like the Asimar originally started out.
Speaker 2:The Asimar were an interesting one where they started because they started as like demigods almost. And then we're like well, let's make them something more usable instead of just being these very weirdly specific they're not angels, demigod type figures. So then when they pulled them down to being actually playable, they kind of lost that level of like oh, they're a smart monster. They became kind of like humans, where a human realistically would be like an intelligent creature or monster. But, there's no one's gonna say, oh, that's an intelligent monster, because it's a human.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like obviously for creatures and monsters and whatnot, like there's obviously the ones that are unintelligent like oozes, yeah, and like wolves are.
Speaker 2:They have like basic pack tactic type stuff, but they aren't intelligent enough to like, oh, we're gonna build a base, we're gonna go to this one spot because we know that there's gonna be a group of people who will have something for us to steal. But they'll be like well, there's usually food here, so we'll go here because there's food there.
Speaker 1:And that's how you have to think about it when you're playing it too, I mean, unless you disagree, I think it's really important that you're asking yourself the question of well, how much are they actually thinking? Is there just food here, or is there things to steal here? Because if they're thinking about those kind of higher thoughts, they're obviously much more of an intelligent monster.
Speaker 2:It kind of comes down to the level of how they want to be thinking. If they're thinking of just, this is where food is, this is where something safe is, kind of that more primal level of just either I am here because there is this or I am there because there is not this they become less of an intelligent creature and more of just kind of that acting on instinctual knowledge, Whereas something like a group of cobalts under the direction of because cobalts typically individually aren't intelligent monsters, but then you get into like the Horde of the Dragon Queen, where they become intelligent monsters because someone's telling them what to do Can kind of branch that gap from just a monster that can think into being an actual intelligent monster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's those weird ones like for me when I'm always questioning whether they're actually intelligent or not would be, for example, intellect devourers, where they chase psionic waves and they kind of tend to form patterns based on where there are psionic waves, but they're an underdark monster that doesn't have a really high intelligence.
Speaker 2:So for intellect devourers it kind of depends on what way you're running them, and because of stuff like there's in the game Baldur's Gate, you can get one who's smart enough to be like we need to leave. We need to leave this place, it's going to die. So you can have some that are a little more intelligent because they come out of people's brains, especially if they are the ones built by a lithid or mindflake. But then you have your more underdark monster ones as well. There's kind of those two areas for that specific monster.
Speaker 2:But sometimes there are those weird ones that kind of bridge this gap of they have a target because of something they can tell versus are they going after a target because it's a target?
Speaker 1:And I think an important thing to remember when you're playing intelligent monsters is you can have a really, really dumb monster race and still have an intelligent creature in that race.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, usually, one of the weird ones we mentioned earlier is goblins. Goblins typically are pretty like instinct. They're a little more intelligent than like your wolves and your normal animals. Typically they're just kind of a pack that roams around hunting and killing things and stealing their things because they're shiny. But as soon as you put, oh, now there's some hobgoblins here, there's some of these other varieties of goblins, usually they start thinking and they become more organized as they diversify a little bit and then you can have something where, oh, this person comes in and tells them what to do and they very quickly go from being, you know like how a pack of wolves is kind of organized, to being an actual militia force.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think an important question is, as we go further in here, what are we going to consider monsters and what are we going to consider races? Because D&D's come into this place now where you there's guidelines for playing non-playable monsters, Like I have had a friend of mine who was running one of the I can't remember what they're called, but the big bugs from the underdark as his character. Like that's not a playable race. That being said, there are guidelines and even books where they have released them as playable races.
Speaker 2:A lot of time. To me it comes down to is because they are pretty clear in all of the rulings what's a monstrous race and what's a normal race. And, like ASMR, aren't a monstrous race, they're just a normal race.
Speaker 1:Now I believe goblins and cobalts are both considered monstrous races, same thing with bugbears, where all of them are intelligent creatures and species, but they are still kind of on that player character level of intellect and not beyond it where like a mind flayer is going to be sitting and that's why, like when you and I were planning this episode and we were talking about it, we chose to go with the title of intelligent creatures, because Asimaur are in the monster manual and they're an enemy that you can fight, but they're not a monster, they're an intelligent creature, or an intelligent being though that same kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Thought goes then with like human bandits or whatever kind of bandits elven bandits, if you wanted to do elves where they're just antagonistic player races Towards, whatever the goal is, whether that be they're just trying to rob a group of adventurers or if they're trying to actively stop them from doing the thing now I will say there are some Monsters and creatures that are uses, enemies and D&D that are intelligent and I bet you there are just five that stick out that both of us can name.
Speaker 1:What would you say are the top five.
Speaker 2:So I Don't know. I for me, because I also have that like Mythology side to yeah, for me some of them are like Sphinxes are really fun intelligent monster to include Because they'll give you riddles usually and then you get to come up with riddles and make somebody really upset. Then you can do like your beholders, which everyone uses mind flayers, drat, some dragons are intelligent Trying to think of a fifth, but my fifth is always the abalus. That's for I find them fun. I think they're silly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would say, if we were to like just toss out a poll, this would be my prediction that the most popular intelligent creatures and D&D would be beholders, dragons, mind flayers, the gith, and then Like Sphinxes, I bet you that would be what I would see.
Speaker 2:One of the weird things with intelligent monsters is there's a lot of monsters who are like are they intelligent, like dragons, especially where you have your named dragons and your dragon gods, who Almost always have a level of we're smart enough to do the things, and you have the one whose name I can't remember right now I'm forgetting his name who Basically created waterdeep.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I know, yeah, we're and then he made this black staff of waterdeep, which prevents dragons from entering waterdeep, and he lives in waterdeep in one of the underground areas and Just kind of exists there. That's very clearly an intelligent Entity who is thinking and making these plans and has all of this power at his disposal. But then you have ancient red dragon, number 27, who is sitting in a cave hoarding gold.
Speaker 1:And we'll hop into that in the next episode. Actually, I think that's a great plug. Next episode is going to be entirely focused on dragons Because they are personally my favorite monster and D&D. But they are so very widely, widely varied. And it's where I kind of want to talk because, especially as a new DM, I loved to dragons, had no idea how to run them because ancient dragon number 57, how the monster manual says to run, it is Definitely not the best way to run ancient dragon number 57. You should be at least giving him a name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like the D&D movie, had the one dragon who you see, the big chubby dragon who's named and I don't remember his name right like I, just I Remember him being like oh, that's not an intelligent dragon, it's in, it's a named intelligent dragon, but it's not an intelligent dragon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they don't really show him very much. He has a lot of lore, especially in the campaigns that take place in the under dark. He is a very, very well notable character who has a couple of monologues in some of those pre-made campaigns. That being said, they showed Zero of his intelligence, which I thought was a lost.
Speaker 2:Basically just showed him, as we've added a big scary beast to chase you around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was pretty sad about that, but I mean they did really well in the in the movie, but I will say the most iconic intelligent creature of D&D, especially if you've been playing longer than fifth edition it's mindflayer's, yeah, and even now with Baldur's gate.
Speaker 2:Everyone knows what the mind flayers are and what they do and, like the opening cutscene, you watch them See the new mind flayer twice and it's like, oh, these things are gross and scary and aren't from normal places.
Speaker 1:And like there's even those horrifying things like, for example, one that's fun in your campaigns is the. What is it called? Is it called like the psionic dragon or whatever it is, elder Dragons? Call it an Elder Dragon, where it literally breathes a breath, spray of Mind, flare, tadpoles. That thing is scary and very rememberable.
Speaker 2:I enjoy Mind Flayers. We found a way to. We did an evil campaign once upon a time and I decided I'd be silly, goofy and play a mind player. And that was an interesting one because D&D has had this issue forever of the Psionic classes kind of being unbalanced, kind of being. Here's a thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will say that the Psionic classes are very, very fun and I love that they left how the progression of the Mind Flare tadpoles growing into a full Mind Flare and they're very vague for DMs to make their own things. I think that's a really wonderful thing. But like one staple is just kind of that. As you use the Psionic abilities that the flares tadpole gives you, it continues to grow and eat your brain. I like that. I think it's a fun way to do it.
Speaker 2:The typical way they do is they insert it through usually the eye and then it just kind of like bites onto your brain somewhere and then over time slowly begins to just consume and replace your brain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and as a DM, when you have a player that is infected with a Mind Flare tadpole which I have only ever had a player asked to do once it is a lot of fun. That D&D gave you some guidelines of what happens, without telling me how to rum it, and I really enjoyed that. I will say other ones that we talked about that are kind of interesting are.
Speaker 2:Abolos. Abolos are so weird and they're interesting and they're very similar to the Mind Flayers and Gith actually in their lore, so I believe I don't know if it's still the same in 5e. It used to be. They were once the like dominant species on the like normal material plane, on the normal world, and then have somehow lost their power. I think it was like a Slaver Bolt or something essentially. But their whole thing is their spicy Mind Flayers. They dominate people's wills and make them work for them.
Speaker 1:What's kind of interesting about how they differ and this is getting into D&D lore and I think some people may find this interesting. But as you get further in Mind, flayers try to convert people and that's how they made their empire, and the reason they fell was because of the Gith, which are their sworn enemies, who made if I remember correctly, it was like a virus that nearly wiped them out completely.
Speaker 2:The Gith rebelled because the Mind Flayers were subjugating them. And then the Gith rebelled made a virus that just destroyed their civilization.
Speaker 1:Whereas with the Abeloths, if I remember correctly, the lore is something along the lines of they had a rebellion where people became certain people, certain chosen individuals were resilient to them and that kind of spread, as time went on and passed, the ability to resist their psionic effects. And I think that that's a really cool thought for a campaign. If you have one showing up, to have one or two players who are resistant, I think it's a great idea. It makes it it's weird.
Speaker 2:You would have to find a way to give everyone something a little something special, and because otherwise you'll have those two players who hopefully they're not like this but they could be like this where they go. Oh, I'm resistant to it. I am now the hero of the party and take that main character energy of I can do whatever I showed up, we win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you'd have to make it where it's like they're resistant to it but they're not immune to it. But you could come up with something fun there. I think that that's something fun to kind of chew on and brew on With intelligent monsters. My my biggest struggle as an individual is choosing how often they should be used, and I have kind of defaulted back to Every single time as much as I can, whenever I feel that I want them to be, because they have more intricate parts moving than the simple monsters and I find them more Engaging but that's personally at my table that I found that so for me if I'm gonna include something like an intelligent monster, whatever is special about it.
Speaker 2:So usually Sphinx have something weird with Knowledge. They know more than most things do, which is I can't remember how they get there, like forbidden knowledge, effectively, but they have something extra. So, using them as like a if you do this task, solve this puzzle for me, I'll give you something and Kind of including them in that way. I like to use Sphinxes as non antagonistic, like truth Sphinxes. You know there's the fake Sphinxes, who are demons instead of being just a different species. But by making it so these, they have a role to play, especially if your campaigns like fate of the world.
Speaker 2:A lot of these intelligent creatures Especially if it's not one of them who is trying to destroy your take over the world Won't want them to. So, like the drag, intelligent dragons don't want human king number 27, who's become a tyrant with a dragon, one dragon ally, to conquer everything and just Push them all out of their homes. So those dragons aren't gonna just sit there and be like have a good day. They're gonna be like here's a little thing to beat them up or some, not literally that, but then including them in a way that they help to move the story along. Why did that be?
Speaker 2:Oh, you beat the dragon and now, oh, these dragons have this weakness, whether it be something like in water deep, where you have the black staff of water deep which stops dragons. Oh, a dragon stole it and had it in its hoard. So now, because we have these special dragons, you can actually obtain these things. And If you're not doing water deep, you could, and include it differently. And because it wouldn't be the black staff of water deep, because water deep doesn't exist, but have that same kind of idea to it so I totally agree.
Speaker 1:I think that that is probably the absolute best way that you can plan to do it like I have no comments.
Speaker 2:To further push that because you're right Like you should always plan them to be part of your story if, if they're included and this is what's like, it's the, it's kind of like the check-offs gun if something's included. Sometimes something's just gonna be there to be silly goofy and you're gonna add them because it's funny.
Speaker 2:But if you have something like you don't want to just throw in a false Hydra Because it's a cool idea, will throw a false Hydra in. But if you have a false Hydra who is working for the big bad and this city is where Some threat is coming out of and it's moved in and it's starting to like slowly weaken it, then that false Hydra feels like it fits there, whereas if you have it just yeah, just took over the small village, then you can have stuff like that that aren't part of the main plot but for your main story things. They should all play into one another in some way or they won't feel like you did anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for me, I Follow a rule of thumb that I actually feel like I can share with everyone. I think that you should wait until third or fourth level to start introducing intelligent monsters.
Speaker 2:And I think that depends on the how they're going to be used. If you like, you could have a behold. If you're doing like spelljammer there's the beholder who owns the tavern Then you can include them in the world without them being good, evil, anything really. They're just kind of there and existing. But they shouldn't be a force Relating in relation to your party until later levels, because otherwise they're either smart enough to be like well, if I take this person who's Doing this thing for me because they're gonna be stronger than the party, why don't I just make them work for me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I and I agree with that and that's why I would say 3rd or 4th level is like perfect. Obviously there's the happy beholder in Spellsjammer where absolutely, yeah, he's gonna be in there. You're gonna have some goblins sometimes that are gonna be friendly and in the town, but other than like NPCs that the players can interact with, I would say I wouldn't even start introducing hobgoblins in these intelligent like tribes until 3rd or 4th level.
Speaker 2:I think that's dependent on what you're going for with your story, because goblins and kobolds are kind of your basic run of the mill grunt enemies, especially for larger organizations. You can include them there and have them be like your introduction to this big bed.
Speaker 2:And this is one of my big gripes with one of the pre made campaigns, which was for in the first section of the Rise of TMA, where you're in the town, you save the town from the kobolds, basically, and then one of the lieutenants is there just to beat someone up. Like nine out of ten times you're going to lose to the level four fighter because you're level two. So, like by including an actual, fully intelligent thing at level two, the party's effort seems pointless to me, especially in that campaign where it's like oh so we saved the, we fought through this town, just to get beaten up again by an unrelated guy.
Speaker 1:Basically, yeah, absolutely, and that's why I think I personally like to wait until your level three or four. So if you decide to fight a human I mean most human bandits aren't going to be level one bandits. You're not going to wake up one morning and be like I'm going to go mug somebody. They've probably been doing it for a while. They're probably like level three.
Speaker 2:They're going to be level two, level three, Ish. It'll depend on where you are to. If you're in the middle of nowhere, they might be a level one bandit, but if you're on a major highway, like going to the main city you know your King's Road or whatever that goes from your capital across the country all of those bandits are going to be level five or up and I agree, because of their targets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and with that, I definitely think that's why, for me again, I follow that rule of thumb of three. I think at level three, a six person party can fight for level two bandits, and that's just my personal opinion. Um, should you ever really remove power from monsters, or do you ever remove power from monsters in order to make them appear sooner?
Speaker 2:So the if I remove power from a monster, typically nine to out of ten times like there might be the one time where it's like they really wanted to fight a thing. I'm gonna include this thing so they can fight it, and then it's like you got to give them something because it's like a few parties Always wanted to fight a, let's say, a beholder. You might remove the anti-magic cone from the beholder and be like oh, it has some Defect in its creation and doesn't have it it has a scar over that eye or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something where it's like, okay, they have this power normally, this one doesn't. So your party can fight it, and because they've always wanted to fight a beholder. But what I prefer to do than before, as opposed to just like removing a power, is to use it as a Element to what their goal is. For a campaign that I've been working on, I have an enemy whose whole thing is he's hiding. So if the party finds him, or too early, before he's like supposed to be, here's the big bad reveal of the guy. He's not gonna Throw a ninth level spell out. He's not just gonna say, well, you die now. He's gonna play the part of I'm not some big, crazy threat, I am a little guy, I'm just like you. I'm gonna shoot a bow at you and he's gonna do something that's not really his forte as a I'm not the threat play and and that can go for something like a mind flayer.
Speaker 1:A dragon might toy around with them, because he knows he's just strong girl already and you can remove the powers without like Weakening that power in a more permanent way and I'll bring this up because you mentioned mind flares my favorite thing to do with mind flares if somebody stumbles on them early, it's just give a psionic tadpole, like it is something that is minor and for me, the mechanic I like to run for mind flares is they give you psionic powers and as you use those you become a mind flare. I think it's fun. I think most of my players usually like it, and then it doesn't feel like oh man, we accidentally stumbled into the mind flare horde.
Speaker 2:Now we're dead, yeah, and especially if it's like a low-level party and you have stuff planned for a spot and they stumble onto it, they walk into the mind flayer. Dan May, you can rework a supposed to be dangerous encounter into something a little less Deadly and a little more like a. The mind flayer is going. You can help us with this thing and We'll give you a gift and they're going to be doing something that's a little stronger than the party can really deal with, at least right away, so that it feels like a devil's bargain almost, which I always enjoyed. It try to include into a campaign. I give players opportunities to do devil bargains.
Speaker 1:It's fun and and even with like for example dragons, like if your players stumble into the dragon den that you have planned, the dragon's not just gonna sit there and sleep the whole time, it's going to roar and they're going to scatter and.
Speaker 2:Then this fun thing you can do with dragons and wyverns and anything big, scary lizards that fly or run. You can have them chase the party and not really threaten the party. I've seen one where it's like, oh there's, they're trying to get to this town. The town's like keeping a wyvern away with cross bow, like they can't think of the name right now Ballistos, that's what they're called, ballast, does you know? Shooting out at it. So it's staying away from the town far enough.
Speaker 2:Your party trying to get to the town has to go through the clearing between the forest and the town in this like city. That's where the wyverns are going to be chilling at. So the wyverns are going to see the party and be that's a snack. Start chasing them. So then it becomes a the party's running away from the wyvern. That's not really a threat to them and you can include them like kind of in that way of they're there, they're a not dangerous threat At the moment and unless you're running like a black dragon or a blue dragon that Specifically wants all humans dead, usually dragons are gonna try to recruit them.
Speaker 1:on first attempt they're gonna be like, hey, you want to help me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that dragon might be trying to Grab the party and be like yoink. I need you to go in the city and destroy the ballastas. Yeah because it can't, especially if it's a city like water deep, where the dragon literally cannot enter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so with intelligence monsters, they're always going to try to default to tricking you before killing you. So if your party stumbles on them to low level, that's a way where I don't have to rip power away from that monster and make it feel unfun, but also I can be like hey guys, you shouldn't mess with this thing, yet it allows for the party to meet the monster.
Speaker 2:Go, oh, that's a scary monster. And then get out and this is going to be some trade or some trick the dragon's going to use. Maybe it's give me a hundred gold.
Speaker 2:Go, get me a hundred gold, bring it back here and he just wants to throw it on his heart and look at it, because gold is pretty, I guess why it allows those monsters to still be a threat without Physically threatening the party. So you, especially if my take, if your, if your party is going to die in the campaign and by that I mean to reflect two or three people, are probably someone's gonna die throughout the campaign Sessions you're, you'd be like, hey, there's a high chance to die in this campaign, just so everyone knows. Yeah, but unless you're doing that, but these giant monsters, if they meet them early, shouldn't be a major threat, but they can be antagonistic and the things that are like when you're thinking about intelligent monsters.
Speaker 1:They have goals. Whereas we've mentioned dragons, a ton and the unintelligent counterpart to dragons is hydras. Hydras have a very low intelligence. They are going to eat Whatever walks in front of their face. So if your player stumbles on your dragon, big bad, he's gonna start by trying to recruit them rather than kill them. Killing them right away would be much more of like a hydra action.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and because these are intelligent, they're smart and they're thinking. With any intelligent monster, if it sees something that it doesn't view as a threat, it isn't enough food for it to like really care about. It's gonna try to get something out of it. It's not gonna like hunt them down.
Speaker 1:Alright, and that's gonna be all for this episode. Thank you for listening to the very end. We do appreciate everyone's support. As we said, if you want to see more content like this, please check out our YouTube channel, and next week we will be back talking about dragons, which is by far my favorite topic in D&D.